Go mountain bikers! wrote on Nov 5, 2006 2:11 AM:Carlsbad needs more outlets for recreational positive and fun 'hobbies' that keep 'kids' out of gangs and maybe keeping them from graffiti art that Buddy is so upset about. Can't ride bikes safely in Carlsbad anymore - traffic horrid and rude drivers. Mountain bikers need challenges and what a perfect outlet they found. Too bad it's called trespassing. What about it city council? Afraid of liability once again? STUPID That’s really stupid. Things happen. Buddy and Ann can certainly remember being sued and paying out $$$ to a former council woman whose daughter was standing under a street sign minding her own business when the street sign suddenly detached and fell on her head. Did the city ban all street signs? Did they rush out to make sue all street signs were nailed tight? Me thinks mountain bike riders would not sue - they just want to exercise, be challenged, enjoy other like minded bicyclists. Go bikers! No drugs here. No illegals. NO trash left in the hills. No fires started. What's the problem?

Susan wrote on Nov 5, 2006 6:08 AM:LEAVE IT ALONE

John wrote on Nov 5, 2006 7:31 AM:Be careful out there bikers .Ya might run over an Illeagal Alien and the ACLU will sue ya. By the way, The photo above looks like a camp to me.The only thing missing are the clothes hanging from the bushes.Im with ya though, who needs more strip malls.

Josh wrote on Nov 5, 2006 8:21 AM:The funny thing is that in our world today, we have forgotten to have fun. It is amazing that you can't just ride a bike on god's given land. We have to get permission from someone like they are are parents. Yes they might own the land, but it is land and it has been sitting there for over 2 decades. Now that the owner wants to build shops, office buildings and who knows what, he wants his land back. In North SD county, don't you think that we have destroyed enough land already, built enough housing and office parks? I mean you can drive by anywhere and see so many unoccpupied. I used to live in San Jose and they did the same thing because they thought about making money. Now there are hundreds of empty buildings and money being lost. At the same time, they are not building on mountains and on land where we were designed to have fun. If the trails need to be cleaned up to be "more safe," go for it. But the funny thing is, how safe is riding your bike on the street around cars, how safe are the skateboard half pipes, etc, etc, etc? Mountain biking is about going out into nature, being one with it and enjoying it. Not thinking about riding in place for 2 hrs so you don't get injured. At this point, this entire situation frustrates me. The trail has been closed for months. It is close to me, the only one around, and the only one around that is as technical and fun in within a 1-2 hr radius. Lets try to work together on this so both parties benefit. It is not about the land, it is about money. Money drives people to do carzy things. Look at our oceans, our land, etc. It is all being ruined, so in anohter 100 years all we are going to see from outer space is a black earth. It is going to be all pavement. Thanks for listening.

Brian wrote on Nov 5, 2006 9:19 AM:I think that these photos tend to make the area look trashy. Why did they have to show a picture of the building materials/wheelbarrow? What should have been shown is the elegant methods that were used to build the trails: The strategically placed rocks and features that keep the trail from being eroded, the bridges over sensitive stream and water crossings and vegetation and the safety features put in place to keep riders, er, on the trail. The critical pieces of rebar talked about all have safety caps on them. This area has been a great escape for me for the last 15 years. It has been a way to get a great workout and enjoy nature during the confines of a mid-day lunch hour. It is sad to see it get bulldozed and concreted into another business park and our riparian stream turned into a drainage culvert. Please don't destroy these trails as they are all that we have left. Mountain biking is not a crime!

BOB wrote on Nov 5, 2006 9:29 AM:I've been commuting thru that canyon for 18 years, much safer than Palomar Airport Road. My main concerns were illegals dogs, rattlesnakes and the pollution from the Waste Management Transfer site (oil) and the Buena Vista Sanitation District (raw sewage leaking into the creek). Mountain Bikers like me help keep it clean. Lets provide legal access.

Eduardo wrote on Nov 5, 2006 12:17 PM:I grew up riding the hills and skating the ditches of so. cal. It's sad to see the open land the get sucked up. Thank goodness to surfrider and coastal commission we still have beach access. ride on, but don't destroy

Wayne wrote on Nov 5, 2006 12:19 PM:The one thing that keeps coming up is the potential for a lawsuit if someone gets hurt out there. Can anyone tell me if that is a real concern? I've heard that lawsuits like that are nearly impossible. The people who use these trails no they take the risk of getting hurt when they strap on a helmet. Can you sue a rattle snake???

Minette wrote on Nov 5, 2006 7:39 PM:It is ironic that the trail in question is right next to the Public Skate Park. If your average citizen attempted to ride a skate board there, I'm sure someone would get hurt. That does not mean it should not exist! Skate parks are created with the user group in mind! The same should apply to the trail. The trail does not have dangerous jumps or encourage reckless behavior. This trail tests the skill of the rider by challenging his or her balance and bike maneuvering skills. It gives the trail users what they want, a challenge, an escape and a great way to stay in shape. Why does the County feel like it must be destroyed immediately? Leave it closed until we have a Trail Plan in effect. Don't spend money and time one something that is still being debated.

Chris wrote on Nov 5, 2006 8:26 PM:To answer your question, Wayne, no you cannot sue a rattlesnake. To the best of my knowledge, they've all already gone to law school and are now practicing attorneys.

Paul wrote on Nov 5, 2006 10:25 PM:I believe it is totally wrong to remove the trails and stop people from riding there! People that don't ride or haven't been there have no clue of the deprivation that these bureaucrats enable at their whim. 1) I agree with an earlier blogger that this issue is more about somebody getting their pocket lined with money. 2) The only reason the trails were built near the skate park is because the developers moved in and destroyed the old trails at the East and West access points. 3) It is so sad that people are so out of touch with the outdoors and/or they don't see the value of having public park land in the immediate vicinity to their homes for people to get exercise and enjoy the natural environment that is endangered. 4) The word "sanitize" is another accurate term for what happens to great trails that the government decides to “save”. I have seen this effect upon most of the areas urban outdoor parks. I guess once the government decides to take control, they just want to spend a bunch of money on aspects that the parks don’t need, the employees, and people to do things that were never needed before. This land is just the way the riders want to keep it, but if we are fortunate enough to keep the access, then I hope the city leaves it as is. 5) People that are incapable of riding difficult trails should exercise enough judgment to dismount and walk when needed. Safety is relative to ones ability—Darwin explained this well. 6) This crap about “illegal trails” is just a good way for someone to argue their side to shift focus from the fact that nobody cared enough enforce useless laws regarding the area for many years.

Joe wrote on Nov 6, 2006 9:02 AM:Flightline area is very unique. Consisting of springs, streams, and wooded oak riperian areas. The pictures here make the trails look bad and unsafe. Honestly, I've seen better engineering on these trails then in a lot of "approved" ones elsewhere! Subjective opinions on safety can be applied to all other areas in life as well, including the skate parks, beach bluffs, streets, and highways; (including Hwy 76). Enough is enough on the development projects! Carlsbad and the surrounding area, is looking too much like Orange County. Let's keep what's left; "recreation areas" open for mountain biking, running, hiking, etc. Let's focus on the ever-changing color of the water in the stream below, apprently caused by the runoff from the waste transfer station and surrounding construction.

Mike wrote on Nov 6, 2006 9:07 AM:There are several points that were not addressed in the article. One is the fact that a good number of the enthusiests who utilize these trails are successful local professionals, elected officials, families,law enforcement officers, milatary men and women, firefighters and just about every other profession or title you can imagine. There is no "vandalism" occurring (except in the minds eye of the "biologists" quoted who see any alteration of nature by man to be vandalism);no trash what-so-ever (except perhaps for the existing migrant camps and they are not even visable). The users and makers of these trails are depicted as criminals by the language that is used by Marcus and others. We feel otherwise and only wish to have the opportunity to work with the County in order to do what is necessary to address their concerns and to keep the trails open and usable.

Richard wrote on Nov 6, 2006 9:31 AM:Poor use of loaded words like the developer describing the land he left as a "nature preserve". Or the biologist sayimg it is a"liability nightmare". How about using the term "rebar" being used for construction reasons. The place is not a preserve, the liability is very addressable, and you could walk by the "rebar" in 2 seconds because there are three pieces of it.Both ends of each piece buried in the ground like an inverted "u". The place is sought after because it is a gem. Don't throw out the baby with the bath water.

Meredith wrote on Nov 6, 2006 9:49 AM:The trails are fabulous. Please keep the trails and improvements as is. Please permit bikers and hikers to use the trails as often as they want. For those of you opposed to the trails, I ask you to watch a mountain biker descend down a technical portion of this Flightline trail and you will be so impressed at the athletic ability of the rider. These riders are not reckless or careless; they are athletes. Incredibly talented athletes. Let them ride.

PAUL wrote on Nov 6, 2006 12:34 PM:I believe it is totally wrong to remove the trails and stop people from riding there! People that don't ride or haven't been there have no clue of the deprivation that these bureaucrats enable at their whim. I agree with an earlier blogger that this issue is more about somebody getting their pocket lined with money. The only reason the trails were built near the skate park is because the developers moved in and destroyed the old trails and the East and West access points. It is so sad that people are so out of touch with the outdoors and/or they don't see the value of having public park land in the immediate vicinity to their homes for people to get exercise and enjoy natural environments. The word "sanitize" is another accurate term for what happens to great trails that the government decides to “save”. I have seen this effect upon most urban area outdoor parks. I guess once the government decides to take control, they just want to spend a bunch of money on aspects that the parks don’t need, their employees, and people to do things that were never needed before. This land is just the way the riders want to keep it, but if we are fortunate enough to keep the access, then I hope the city leaves it as is. People that are incapable of riding difficult trails should exercise enough judgment to dismount and walk when needed. Safety is relative to ones ability—Darwin explained this well. This talk about “illegal trails” is just a good way for someone to argue their side to shift focus from the fact that nobody cared enough enforce useless laws regarding the area for many years.

Susan wrote on Nov 6, 2006 2:32 PM:It is interesting to me that this trail, has created such an uproar with the city. It is probably the liability issue,or maybe the fact that someone took it upon themselves to create a haven awayfrom a very busy life, that upset them. The previous trails werebeautiful, and encompased alot of land. Now that the developers have taken that access away, what did people think would happen? These hard working people thatuse these trails, didn't get where they are in business by laying down and playing dead. They just tried to make the best they could out of a bad situation. Non-violently I might add!

JOY wrote on Nov 6, 2006 4:59 PM:Gee, the article makes all you mountain bikers look like a bunch of criminals. KEEP UP YOUR FIGHT AND GOOD LUCK!!!

jerome wrote on Nov 6, 2006 7:54 PM:Since this article mostly express the point of view of Markus Spiegelberg, Preserve Manager for Center for Natural Lands Management and he didn't consult the users of this trail I think it would be fair to write to your readers, they can get more info from the riders perspective on the dedicated website [google 'save flightline carlsbad'] Thanks

Richard wrote on Nov 7, 2006 6:13 AM:Markus Spieleberg had his chance to be a hero and delay the trail destruction until the mtn bikers had the opportunity to present their ideas on liability and trail integrity to the county officails. He said he wants to work with mtn bikers and wants their muscle to build new trails and be volunteers.Doesn't he understand you get more flies with honey. What was his big rush and why was he so un communicative for someone who proposed working together. I was told how intelligent he is. Looks like reading books doesn't always translate to working well with people.What did he expect by not giving mtn bikers a small delay? Now he will be labeled a control freak bad guy.

Pete wrote on Nov 7, 2006 8:18 AM:Maybe if you just stuck with riding your bikes and not building garbage out there they wouldn't have so much to complain about nor would they have these ugly pictures to show.

Joe wrote on Nov 7, 2006 9:24 AM:The article title is inaccurate. It should of read "CNLM to Destroy Trails". The mountain biking community; who had over 1000 signatures to save the trails, was not addressed by local officials. Seemed that local officials were more concerned about electioneering. Markus and the CNLM already had an adjenda: Demo of the ridge trail is officially underway. The trailheads for both trails are now blocked with piles of debris. Postholes have been dug at the culvert, presumably in advance of a gate. Work crews are working their way down the ridge pulling out bridges, posts, etc… It appears as though they have marked trails to be worked with small irrigation marker flags. Creek crossing bridges are still intact, although I would expect them to be gone by the end of the week. So much for diplomacy!

Mike wrote on Nov 7, 2006 10:46 AM:The article paints mountainbikers as criminals. NC Times should post a follow up article allowing mountainbikers to express their views, such as have been posted here. You will find passion and eloquence, and hopefully the powers that be will pause and consider. Let's think about it clearly, if the liability issue is addressed, which would not be hard to do, what harm is there? The trails attract people to Carlsbad and could be seen as a public amenity. It is without question a beautiful little pocket of wildness. Trails will access it. Why not empower the industrious bikers who built the trails out of pure love, name them to a commission and everybody wins. The County will have free help, can oversee what they do, and the trails will be there for all. My 2 sense.

Nikoll wrote on Nov 7, 2006 9:35 PM:This trail is truly one of a kind; it should be preserved for its unique nature as well as the challenges it poses to its riders. I admire all those who get out there and ride it on a regular basis--and have no doubt they will put up a good fight in its defense. You've definetly got my support!

John wrote on Nov 9, 2006 3:03 PM:Once the Flightline cat was out of the bag we tried to play by the rules and Markus couldn't sell us out fast enough. Thanks, Markus-- you're the best, babe. Developers, the City of Carlsbad, the illegal alien squatters, Waste Management, Buena Vista "Sanitation District"-- they break the law with impunity and they're rewarded. We try to play by the rules and we get...Markused. Get used to the new word, you'll be reading it a lot in the years to come.

Tin wrote on Nov 9, 2006 8:36 PM:I heard about this trail from many Mountain bikers. I fell that it is safer riding on the mountain than riding on the street. Bikers ride according to their skills and the one that push the envalope are the ones that know what they are doing. I seen many kids off the street and on the bikes so that right there keeps the drugs and gangs away. I seen numerous small accidents and once in a blue moon see a big accident on the trial, but havent seen or heard of anyone sueing. We know and ride at our own risk. Please presere Flightline for the future Mountain Bikers.