Carson wrote on Mar 13, 2008 5:34 AM:If the Revolutionaries in the government would have respected the will of, "We the People" and enacted Proposition 187 instead of deceitfully overturning it we may have avoided these problems.

There still may be time for them to redeem themselves by enforcing the immigration laws. Not only may it help them avoid arrest, it could go a long way to save some of the children’s futures.

Remember, aiding and abetting illegal aliens is a felony.

Susan wrote on Mar 13, 2008 6:14 AM:I have no sympathy for the school districts. A number of years ago the voters overwhelmingly passed a law in CA that prevented taxpayers from having to pay for the education of those in the country illegally. The schools went against the will of the voters and to the most liberal judges to have it overturned. They wanted the money each child brought to each district. Classes were canceled and funds shifted to ESL classes etc. The result has been devastating and expensive. They have no one to blame but their greedy selves.

No Sympathy here wrote on Mar 13, 2008 6:25 AM:Go ahead and march all you want to. I am going to suggest that the Governor increase the cuts to the budget to 20 percent across the board.

John wrote on Mar 13, 2008 6:33 AM:These protests are ridiculous. Does any rational person believe that a budget about the same as last year is a "crisis"? Every year the taxpayers are asked to spend more and more and more while the quality of educations becomes less and less and less. The solution is to let some hard-noised business people have a crack at the budget. Not only could fat be cut, but education could be improved by focusing resources on education. Are the protesters the same people who have banned the use of the words "father" and "mother" from the school vocabulary?

It is simple wrote on Mar 13, 2008 6:40 AM:less illegals means more money for American students and teachers. I learned that one in 2nd grade.

Hard Working man wrote on Mar 13, 2008 6:41 AM:Get back into the classrooms where you belong. The governor is doing what should have been done years ago--excise the fat out from the BLOATED public school system. What fat you may ask: Free meals, tax-payer financed conferences, electives comparable to basket weaving, etc. Teach a FULL DAY and cut out your so-called MODIFIED DAYS and LATE START DAYS where you get to "COLLABORATE OR COMMIZURATE" under the guise of improving public education--what a joke! By the way, my child cannot even afford to particiapet on the high school track and field because we can't afford the $130.00 transportation "tax." And I thought I already paid taxes to support the public school system!!! Does Superintendent Leighty pay a transportation fee for the district car provided to her??? I say cut $10,000,000 more and we will see dramatic improvement in the "business" of public education.

arny's army wrote on Mar 13, 2008 6:50 AM:My children are out of school now. I got mine, now I vote "NO" for your children.We are called the greatest generation for a reason. Because everyone is here to provide us with a great retirement that will last many more years then we ever worked. For the teachers "Let them eat cake"

Randy wrote on Mar 13, 2008 6:55 AM:So long as State Senate and Assembly Republicans cling to their stated policy of "No New Taxes," these protests are an utterly complete waste of time.

No Sympathy here also wrote on Mar 13, 2008 7:18 AM:We keep hearing the teachers complain, but half my class doesn't speak English. If you want to keep your jobs I would advise you to insist your Union contacts the California Law Makers and demand no schooling or any other benefits for Illegals or Arnold and Jorge are going to get their wish, only American children and teachers left behind.

Have any of you wrote on Mar 13, 2008 7:19 AM:heard of recalling the politicans? Just the threat alone will make them cave.

Boy these wrote on Mar 13, 2008 7:21 AM:people working for the Senator don't look like they have been dining in the schools cafeterias. That is going to take some food investment to get that way.

Hey Teachers wrote on Mar 13, 2008 7:24 AM:you want smaller class sizes? Move to Oklahoma or Arizonia, their illegals self deported due to the changes in State law. So don't come whinning to the tax payers.

Publius wrote on Mar 13, 2008 7:48 AM:You people blaming illegal immigration fo the schools' budget woes have it backwards. If you took away the illiegal immigrants, the schools would get even less money, because the state pays them per student. Why do you think they fought 187 so hard? If you could somehow get rid of every illegal immigrant (and that's a whole other story) it would save the STATE (taxpayers, that is) money, but just add to schools' problems.

No you get rid of wrote on Mar 13, 2008 8:13 AM:the illegal aliens and register non existent students using forge documents as the illegals do now and you have the same class size without the number of actual bodies.

to hard working man wrote on Mar 13, 2008 8:32 AM:Get a better job and you could afford the 130.00 for your kids. Maybe you should have payed attention in school and gone to college....Most people on this board was taught in the public school system. America has the most equitable school system in the world. Those who are against funding education seem to have hatred, jealousy, or exteme anger in them. Thats ok though, Anger and hatred will only hurt you in the long run.

Please don't wrote on Mar 13, 2008 9:09 AM:preach, teacher.

Mojave Jim wrote on Mar 13, 2008 9:11 AM:The average Californian is a fool and now they are being fooled yet again. I predicted that the reason why education was being cut was to get the "we must do it for the children" crowd up in arms and the fools will demand a tax increase.

Since Arnold has taken office he has increased spending by 40%. He is as bad as Grey Davis.

California is run by clowns and the average citizen is a clown. If only we were smart enough to have pass all those measures in the special election a couple of years ago it would have fixed most of what was wrong with this state, but we were far too stupid.

We deserve what we get.

Mojave Jim wrote on Mar 13, 2008 9:27 AM:Why don't we just turn over all our money to them? I am sick of California and those who have no respect for the hard working taxpayer. In this state the taxpayer is on the bottom of the heap. We are a state of clowns.

Reardon wrote on Mar 13, 2008 9:37 AM:We are number 1 in teacher salary (see NEA website); number 27 in total expenses for education (see http://ftp2.census.gov/govs/school/05f33pub.pdf); and number 48 in academic testing (see http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/). We are obviously not getting our money's worth in public education. I don't care if the teachers are the highest paid in the nation if the academic standing is also the best -- but our teachers are the best paid and our students are FAILING. Either pay the teachers less or bring the students competitive grades UP! We are paying too much for too little.

Don't whine to the wrote on Mar 13, 2008 9:42 AM:tax payer, whine to your Union, that is what you were paying dues for wasn't it? Tell them to scream at the law makers, or did they just collect their money from you without represention?

Reardon wrote on Mar 13, 2008 9:47 AM:No, Publius. The State Constitution requires a set % of State income to public education. If the illegal students were diminished through Arizona/Oklahoma attrition, the total number of students would be diminished and EACH REMAINING STUDENT would receive more per/student money! (Publius must be a public school graduate.)

lucki wrote on Mar 13, 2008 9:50 AM:All of my kids are learning English and they ARE all legal. Now their parents...that's is another story. But these kids deserve an education too.

Also, to sit there are act like these budget cuts won't affect you is ignorant. These kids are not getting decent educations when they sit in classrooms with 33 other students. These are the kids who you will encounter everyday as adults and wonder why they can't read or write properly. You think it is easy to teach on limited funds? You try it! Go to a school and follow a classroom for one day. Maybe you can even attempt a lesson.

This Keep California Stupid attitude it going to hurt us all.

Amazed wrote on Mar 13, 2008 9:51 AM:The problem is not illegals, although that is a separate issue for sure that needs to be addressed. The problem is the way schools are funded and the fact that we are one of the more wealthy states, however the school funding is at the bottom. Our kids do get a bunk deal with education, but that is not the fault of the teachers, it is the fault of the system the legislators use to fund schools. Paying per student per day attended is insane. Having no arts, music and only funding sports is crap. Write the legislators and tell them this is no good!!!

James wrote on Mar 13, 2008 9:53 AM:To No Sympathy


Illegals refers to all races, not just Mexicans. God doesn't like racist people.

Uneducated comments wrote on Mar 13, 2008 10:06 AM:I'm appalled at the lack of cogent writing ability here. Sadly, even the teachers can't write fluently, spell correctly, or even compute without calculators. Forget common sense. No wonder parents home-school! California ranks on the bottom of all states. Not only does this lead to dumbed-down graduates, it throws the whole economy to the dogs. Why? When was the last time a fast food worker got your hamburger order right? When was the last time you REALLY checked what your student was 'learning' in school? Was any of it relevant to the future and our ability to compete globally? Dumping more money into an already sinking system is not the solution. What is?

Publius wrote on Mar 13, 2008 10:30 AM:Yeah, Reardon, I am a public school graduate. Apparently you look down your nose at us? As for that "guaranteed percentage," that hasn't done the schools much good so far, has it? The language in Prop. 98 is so loose (one of the major flaws in many initiatives) that the governors and Legislatures over the years have been able to interpret it quite loosely and cut the school budgets whenever they feel like it. Think if the number of students in schools suddenly dropped 10-15%, they wouldn't find "better uses" for that money? If so, you really haven't been paying attention.

to Reardon wrote on Mar 13, 2008 10:39 AM:You data is incorrect. I checked you websites you listed and the data does not support your comments. At this point, the united states does not have a "test" that can compare states with test scores. The website you listed simply compares a few large cities around the country with comparative tests. Even with that, Los Angeles and San Diego rank in the middle of large cities, not below. A national standard that can be more accurate is SAT and AP scores. California students rank 15th out of 50 for those exams. Check the AP index and college admissions websites. I'm not a teacher, but both my children have gone through california public schools and both have a college education. One is an attorney and the other a civil engineer. Public school systems in california have been underfunded for years. These kids are the future whether you believe that or not. Spend the money on them or our future is in trouble.

Reardon wrote on Mar 13, 2008 10:44 AM:No, Publius. The Governator has had the compliance (in one case actual, signed agreement)of the Teacher Unions in reducing the % of the budget that goes to schooling. (I say "schooling" because, as I noted above, it is not "education" -- they are different. They shouldn’t be different but they are in California.)

Marine wrote on Mar 13, 2008 11:10 AM:If you must compare, do as "to Reardon" does - look at a test that is truly comparable from state to state, like the SAT or AP exams. Of course, like all tests, these are biased . Consider the ACT as another possible comparison exam. Just keep in mind other factors too when comparing expenses and salaries, like the cost of living in SoCal. Teachers here may be paid well compared to the average, but they pay more for everything they do. I've generally found teachers to be some of the most generous people around, consistently giving of their time and money to help their students. The old maxim is generally true, that if you want the best, you have to pay for it. Cutting funding will only work if it forces ineffective teachers out, which it won't (necessarily) - it'll only cut the junior teachers...and music programs, and sports activities and anything else deemed "non-essential" by the school or school board. Sad. Even more sad is the banning of home-shooling. Not that I'm a big fan, but I believe their average test scores bear out their effectiveness. And with the other issues the state is dealing with, I sure can't blame those parents for taking their child's education into their own hands. There's also private schools as an option, but that's a topic for another discussion.

NTC wrote on Mar 13, 2008 11:33 AM:is blocking comments again that place the blame for our budget woes on ILLEGAL Immigrants. When will they quit censoring those who don't follow their liberal bias?

el tigre wrote on Mar 13, 2008 11:35 AM:It's so typical that once again the illegals are the ones to blame for this problem. You guys are so predictable. How much money is the US spending daily in Iraq? and for what? You would think education would be one of this country's main priorities, but for some reason it is not. Blaming the illegals for every problem is getting so annoying, you people whine everyday, and nothing changes and nothing ever will.

Holy cow wrote on Mar 13, 2008 11:50 AM:I can't believe that so many people actually believe this tripe about immigrants ruining our school system. Give me a break! And yes, blaming teachers helps, too! For crying out loud, how did people get to be such idiots? You do realize that our education is sinking lower and lower, and it's not because of the unions or the immigrants--it's because people like the idiots on this blog think the schools already get enough. Have any of you spent time in a school and seen not only the physical decay of the buildings in our older schools, but how much teachers have to do just go get through the day? They spend their own money to make sure kids have supplies! Is this the best America can do? Shameful. End the war in Iraq and stop funding the Halliburton nonsense and I think we'll have money to rebuild what has been broken in education.

Education is wrote on Mar 13, 2008 12:00 PM:the most important thing we can give our children. I have had two children go through the Murrieta School system and I believe they got an amazing education. The teachers were hardworking and dedicated. I am grateful for the school systema and we should all be. My children are now in college thanks to Murrieta "public" schools. Fund the schools.

Unbelievable wrote on Mar 13, 2008 12:01 PM:I am really appalled by some of the comments on this page!! Teachers are some of the hardest working and most underpaid people in this country. They are expected to jump through all kinds of hoops that no "normal" job entails such as continuing education at their own expense. (This is not optional either!) Most teachers also spend much of their own money in their classrooms to fund projects, etc. The schools are unfunded in this country in general. There is much mismanagement of funds across the board, but especially to overfunding of the military. We need to re-evaluate what our priorities are in this country!

Bob wrote on Mar 13, 2008 12:10 PM:What used to be, "No Child Left Behind" is now, "EVERY Child Left Behind."

To Holy Cow wrote on Mar 13, 2008 12:22 PM:Fine we are idiots, just don't ask the idiots for any more money for the school system. If fact more and more idiots are going to be home schooling their children, isn't that nice even less money goes to the schools!

Ashley wrote on Mar 13, 2008 12:48 PM:I am outraged. I am a teacher and I invite any of you to sit in my classroom for a day. Oh and won't it be comforting to know that a prisoner in jail is worth more than a student. Where are out priorities? If education is cut, all the kids who fall through the cracks will end up in jail and they will cost the state more. Hmmmmmmmm

Don't worry wrote on Mar 13, 2008 1:22 PM:Ashley, be happy! :) With more and more kids going into home schooling you won't have to worry about over crowded clasrooms.

PharmaScientist wrote on Mar 13, 2008 1:36 PM:Reardon - I also check the link and you either did not read the document, or could not understand the document or you are misleading the people. The facts state that CA is below the national average in funding per child. By the way, my wife is an elementary school teacher and we pay close to $1,500 every year out of our own pockets for pencils, paper, tissues, etc… This is not considered a tax deduction by the IRS either.

Lawyers, Doctors wrote on Mar 13, 2008 1:36 PM:both have continuing education that they have to pay for, so what is your point? Don't blame us because you dropped out before Med or Law School.

You know in the picture wrote on Mar 13, 2008 1:50 PM:above, I sort of find it hard to believe that an 11 year old cares one way or another if teachers get laid off. I just wished it would of happen while I was in school. I still have resentments about teachers and educators cramming their belief systems down my throat.

Reardon wrote on Mar 13, 2008 2:08 PM:To To Reardon: (Sigh!) You are not looking for the State Comparison page. Let me give you specific instructions: Paste This into your Browser: http://search.nces.ed.gov/search?output=xml_no_dtd&site=nces&client=nces&proxystylesheet=nces&q=national+report+card+by+state. Click on Annual Reports Program; You will get the “State Profiles” Page, click on “State Comparisons” link in the center of the page; (You will get “State Comparisons” Page; Select 4th Grade, Mathematics, 25%-75%, Single Year, 2007, 2 decimal places, NEXT; Sort on 2007 All Students. You will note that you must do this for 4th grade, and separately for 8th grade; again for 4th grade reading, and again for 8th grade reading. Export the data to Excel by clicking on “Export to Excel.” Once you have exported the data, open Excel and sorted all of the STATE data, you will see that I am correct. (In this particular exercise, the answer for California is 48. Alternately, you could have one of your well-educated children do it. I do it annually, so perhaps I can find this data more easily, and as a retired professor who taught teachers, I have sufficient interest to look for it.

Patsy wrote on Mar 13, 2008 2:13 PM:Disturbing...those of you bashing education, are you upset with a system that is broken or the teachers that sacrifice their time and money for our children? They spend countless hours of their own time before,after school, and many also use part of their weekends.Of course there are exceptions to this but nothing getting rid of tenure wouldn't solve. As with any job or business "if you are not doing your job" you shouldn't have one regardless of the amount of time you have worked there. It would also encourage teachers to be their best. Do you have children in school and if so do you take the time to partner with your child's school to ensure a balanced education? It is not the sole responsibility of the school system to educate, it is also the responsibility of the family which is also a fractured system. How much time do you spend with your child? Far less than their teacher. Teachers wear many hats many times they are the best part of a students day. Look around you and take the time to educate yourself and participate in being part of the solution. there appears to be many angry sheep posting messages. What a shame.

Option? wrote on Mar 13, 2008 2:22 PM:I left this comment on one of the other sites. Many schools Districts are having Parents donate money to the district to offset the cuts. When I lived in the La Canada school District the formed the SOS (Save our Schools). They had just broken off from the Glendale School District to become their own district and money was tight. Parents were asked to donate $500 per student for the year. 90% of the households did, even people who no longer had children in school donated. They all knew that if the schools were good their property values would stay high. This was in the early 90's. They kept almost all of the extra programs.
It is now called the The La Cañada Educational Foundation, last year it presented a check to the District for over $1,200.000. Now they are only asking for $365 per household to maintain their gift giving. They only have 4,100 students in the district. Just think if someone started that here. $365 is nothing. They are in the top 10% of of California Schools and 98% go to College. With 80% taking the SAT's. I think Temecula should try another option like they did. Instead of everyone wining, do something to help! ... .

If it is also wrote on Mar 13, 2008 2:33 PM:the families responsibility, then how about giving the home schooled family the money the school system would of received for each child?

I would say the teachers wrote on Mar 13, 2008 2:35 PM:are the sheep as we don't see them demanding their Unions to do something.
Show the taxpayers some spine.

RBVHS Senior wrote on Mar 13, 2008 2:43 PM:These budget cuts are disgusting me. In the Vista Unified School District, we desperately need a new high school. The dual-magnet high school being built currently is in danger of being delayed AGAIN, because these cuts. If Dr. Goofy(Gufanti) and his gang really wanted to do whats best for the students, they would cut their own $100,000+ salaries and
save some teachers jobs. I just don't get how cutting dozens of teachers from already overcrowded schools is "helping" the students. However, I can see how cutting salaries of those who aren't really helping out much(school board)and saving more teachers can help.
Our district has enough problems as it is, and sadly, it looks as though its only going to get worse. If those in charge of these decisions would just pull their heads out of their "you know what", and see the big problems with this district, maybe we wouldn't be in such a mess. I feel terrible for these teachers who will be loosing their jobs and only hope they can return soon.

Marine wrote on Mar 13, 2008 2:44 PM:Patsy - I concur, but would like to emphasize the point about parental involvement. I was a teacher, as was my wife (in Florida). We saw first hand the effects of parents who get involved, parents who just meddle, and absentee parents, many of whom didn't speak English. You can guess which children were best adapted and seemed to get the most from the education they were offered. By the way, neither of us was in it for the money, but had a passion for service. Of the two of us, I had the higher IQ, but my wife was a better teacher. It's not so much the smart teachers we're after, but the GOOD ones. Although they're not usually motivated by financial compensation, it's a definite slap in the face to continually cut them down by placing their profession below that of lesser-skilled positions and other professionals which aren't as responsible for the daily guidance AND education of our youth. Again, if you want the best, you have to pay for it. Going the other direction is NOT progress.

or the Private school wrote on Mar 13, 2008 2:47 PM:The same with the Private School Families. Just because we choose not to bring our Children up in that broken down system doesn't mean we wouldn't like our money back too. They have the private school kids money and the home school kids money and they still can't make it.

Skip wrote on Mar 13, 2008 2:48 PM:Even though my wife is a teacher and will probably get laid off, I have no sympathy for the California School System. We pay to have our children attend private schools and I demand a Tax DEDUCTION. I am tired of my tax dollars going to pay for the education of the children of mexico and the rest of South America.

Bill 1 wrote on Mar 13, 2008 3:08 PM:Prop 187 was the answer and our judicial system put aside the will of the people.

Reardon wrote on Mar 13, 2008 3:27 PM:To PharmaScientist: Follow my instructions, noted above and if you have problems, I will print out all of the information and leave it at the front desk of the NCT. In my initial post, I noted that total spending by California for 'education" was 27th -- which is below the national average, but considering the academic standing it is in a big disparity with our academic standing. I don't care if we pay the teachers at the 48th level in keeping with our academic standing, or we get an academic standing at the top in keeping with our teacher pay level -- but to pay at the top and perform at the bottom is criminal!

Teacher in North County wrote on Mar 13, 2008 3:34 PM:Thank you Holy Cow for finally saying something that makes sense. A lot of you are making comments about schools and teachers without really knowing anything about the subject. As for Skip's comment, if your wife has the same attitude about your tax dollars going to those from another country, it is probably a good thing she is being laid off.

Floyd wrote on Mar 13, 2008 3:38 PM:The problem with "getting involved" in the schooling of your child is that you encounter a lot of resistance from teachers and administrators when you insist that education is supposed to occur. It's easy to say "fine, if you don't want my help, and since you claim to be the expert professional educator, then you can do it." If you want the parents to be involved, you've got to be ready to accept their involvement!

over promoted wrote on Mar 13, 2008 3:44 PM:the problem stems from teachers climbing the corporate ladder and ending up where they don't belong. Administrating,Controlling,and Managing large amounts of money

arny's army wrote on Mar 13, 2008 3:48 PM:Amen Floyd

Reardon wrote on Mar 13, 2008 3:50 PM:The problem with education in California is multi-faceted. Yes, having non-English speaking people in mainstream classrooms holds back education for English-speaking students. (Non-English speaking students should not be mainstreamed until they are English proficient.) Yes, Massachusetts FAILS incoming teachers at an overall rate of 24% (Latinos fail at 53% and Blacks at 54%) while California PASSES incoming teachers at a 100% rate. Meanwhile, everyone who believes that schools need more money -- WRITE A CHECK! I have checked the statutes and there is NO prohibition to you sending your local school or school district a CHECK! You have a tax rebate coming from the FEDS -- endorse it over to your favorite school! PLEASE BE MY GUEST!

California School System wrote on Mar 13, 2008 3:50 PM:is falling down, falling down, falling down. California School System is falling down, falling down, falling down. My fair lady! C'mon everybody sing along! You don't need to be taxed to have a singing class here!

Marine wrote on Mar 13, 2008 4:31 PM:Floyd - good point. Though I've seen it both ways. Some parents are supportive and work WITH the teachers. Some show "support" by badgering the teachers. As a parent, I've also met teachers who LOVE to work with me and my wife, but met one a couple years ago who was quite cool (a bit frosty, actually) who didn't seem receptive to input. It's called "relationship building", and it doesn't always work. People are people. .... Now, as for donating money, my kids went to a public school where the PTA coordinated a great fundraiser (silent auction) that generated enough funds to keep their music teacher (50% of his/her salary each year)! Funding doesn't always have to come straight from the parents' wallets - they already pay plenty for all the "extras" the school can't cover. So get creative, get vocal and get with local businesses that will donate items to a silent auction, sponsor a sports team, a music program or the like. There are many creative & CONSTRUCTIVE ideas out there that just need to be given a voice.

Have Gun Will Travel wrote on Mar 13, 2008 4:39 PM:The proposed budget cut will prove to be a ray of light in the darkening world of public education. It will force school districts to be precisely accountable with taxpayer funds and will serve to streamline the education process by shifting the focus to teaching only those skills necessary for survival in a today's world. Eliminate all social and club activities unless the kids start their own, eliminate all sports programs (rampant steroid use nullifies any positive character-building benefits), scrap all electives which are a waste of money, scrap PE classes which have done nothing to reverse the child obesity epidemic (what happened to 20-30 push-ups, 100 sit-ups, 15 pull-ups, running laps, and simply moving various body parts? In my observations of PE, I see merely game-playing and lots of "free time." Each child should be required to learn nothing more than mathematics, english, history, and science and it should be 12 solid years of nothing but these courses. Cut the rest of the subjects out and we will save tens of millions. Streamline the district office too--get rid of all the unnecessary administrators and have their pay tied to test scores.If test scores are 25% below the national average, cut the administrative salaries by the same 25%. Don't just blame the teachers for dismal performance-- blame and fire those administrators who do not meet statistical performance goals. Bottom line: Run the school district strictly like a business and then we will see an improvement in public education.

David wrote on Mar 13, 2008 5:14 PM:So, So, Sad. Its easy to blame the illegial Mexicans/Central/South Americans....which is somewhat true. However, to blame the Rep/Bush administration is such an easy way/escapegoat method. If you look at other comments on almost any subject in the NCT...blame Bush, blame the government...bla bla bla--The main blame should be yourself. I live in this economy and do very well b/c of hard work and an education. Check yourself before you point blame to Bush or Mexicans. Here is a thought: update your CV, go to night classes to get MBA, learn Arabic and earn 200k

To Reardon wrote on Mar 13, 2008 5:34 PM:According to Education Week we are 46th in per pupil spending and are $1,892 less then the national average. Feel free to check it out yourself. As far as educating non-English speakers...we have no choice. It is a federal law and our schools take federal funds. We can pass whatever law we want abd it will do no good.

Randy wrote on Mar 13, 2008 6:14 PM:The United States spends a greater portion of its education dollars on budgetary items other than teacher pay than does any other civilized nation. We also spend more per student than any other civilized country. Our public education system is run like our corporations: top heavy and filled with waste. It's unfortunate that teachers are losing their jobs but the taxpayers cannot continue to support a failed, wasteful system. Out system needs to be gutted and rebuilt from scratch. What a mess.

AAA wrote on Mar 13, 2008 6:15 PM:Every profession has good, average and bad in the workforce. In California, thanks to the union and tenure, we have good, average and bad teachers making the same money. The bad ones can't be fired and many of the good ones become disenchanted. Such a system ensures failure. If we could fire the bad teachers and half the administrators, and teach only in English, we could increase the pay to all deserving teachers, produce better educated students, and have it all for less money. Throwing more money at a failed system doesn't work.

Cal wrote on Mar 13, 2008 6:24 PM:I guess the tax moochers dont get it - we are in a depression and there is NO MONEY. 0+0 = 0, see? Get a productive job like the rest of us slobs.

Education is the most important thing wrote on Mar 13, 2008 6:52 PM:BUT, our system is BROKEN! I used to blame the school districts for not being HONEST with the parents & the students about how well they were doing (think grades). Now I blame the parents, students & the taxpayers for not DEMANDING better (& by better, I'm not talking about throwing more money at the problem). The children graduating from our public schools are NOT being adequately prepared for life after K-12. Ask anyone in business if they believe our graduates have the BASIC skills they need to enter the job market & the answer is NO. Look at how many graduate with the requirements they need to enter a 4 year college (in Temecula, it's ONLY 30%, per CA Dept. of Ed DataQuest web site). Consider the number of students that do continue their education that REQUIRE remediation (remedial courses). What's worse is that those do-over courses do NOT count towards a degree AND the majority of students that must take them do NOT stick around to earn a degree! Why aren't parents & students complaining about that? Is it because they thought their good or passing grades (too subjective) were an indication they were learning what they need to? Why aren't the taxpayers, who pay TWICE, for those do-over courses, complaining? Just think of ALL the money that could be saved if we did not need to re-teach all that these students (by virtue of their GRADES) thought they had already learned! The apathy here in CA makes me sick!

To Holy cow and Others wrote on Mar 13, 2008 6:56 PM:COST OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION IN CALIFORNIA ESTIMATED AT NEARLY $9 BILLION

California's nearly 3 million illegal immigrants cost taxpayers nearly $9 billion each year. Educating the children of illegal immigrants is the largest cost, estimated at $7.7 billion each year.

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2004/12/06/news/top_stories/19_56_5812_5_04.txt

By: EDWARD SIFUENTES - Staff Writer Sunday, December 5, 2004

Reardon wrote on Mar 13, 2008 7:00 PM:Have Gun Will Travel is correct. We need to do away with school sports, PE, band, transportation, and cafeteria. I have no objection to any or all of these -- but after school, and not organized, paid for or managed by the school system. In too many schools, the tail of athletics (etc.) wags the dog of academics. This budget crises could be the impetus for a major reform of what is a failed system. If we did this reform we would have plenty of money for TEACHERS! (BTW, school should not be organized on an agrarian basis, but should last 12 months. Teachers should be much more highly trained, and should be paid a minimum of $100,000 a year.)

Syl wrote on Mar 13, 2008 7:07 PM:RE: So, So, Sad. Its easy to blame the illegial Mexicans/Central/South Americans....which is somewhat true. >> Go to any public school in Los Angeles and East Los Angeles, and you would swear you were in a different country. Well those schools are using the same California tax dollars as we do.

Reardon wrote on Mar 13, 2008 7:11 PM:To To Reardon: You cite a newspaper, I cite Census data. The reader may take their choice as to reliability. I do not disagree that the law requires that we educate illegal aliens, but the law does not require that we mainstream them into regular classes BEFORE they are English proficient.

Madam Patriot wrote on Mar 13, 2008 8:18 PM:My company does business with the educational industry here, and nationally so I do have some insight in this area. Food for thought, nothing more.

1. Only about $0.55 cents per dollar ends up in the classroom. The remainder is allocated to the bureaucracy (administration). Smaller management at the top means a broader base (and resources) at the bottom.

2. Yes illegal immigration is putting a huge burden on our schools. If you link to http://nces.ed.gov/ccd/districtsearch/ (Dept of Education), you'll be able to do a search by district to see the large number of English Language Learners (ELL) students now enrolled in our schools; just key in your district name and hit search. For example if you search for Los Angeles, you will find that out of 727,319 students, 40% (or 293,711) of their students are classified as ELL; for Vista it's 25%, for Escondido it's 44%, for Oceanside it's 26%, for San Diego it's 28%. Some districts within the state have over 65% of their students classified as ELL.

3. We need to get back to the basics and get away from the socialization of our children. Leave that to the parents where it belongs. As someone who hires (and fires) I always ask the applicants do a basic math equation in their head. Something like add 9 + 7 - 2 + 6 / 4 x 7 =. Only about half of the teens and twenty-something's get it correct. Start teaching them how to use their mental calculator, not an electronic one.

4. Parents must take an active role in their child's education. Volunteer once in a while in the classroom, and work with the teacher to identify where your child needs help and find a way to work with the child to improve them.

5. Buy the teacher something they can use in the classroom. This can be as simple as dry-erase markers or an educational game. Many schools post wish lists for their teachers and I know they would be grateful.

6.Don't eliminate home schooling. Most kids that are home schooled actually do better than their public counter parts. Stupid judge; it gets back to that whole socialization thing.

Here We Go wrote on Mar 13, 2008 8:50 PM:Lucki, maybe allowing more discipline in the classroom would help with large class sizes. Boy, when was the last time you heard that in a school -- DISCIPLINE! Ah, but we're more worried about appeasing special interest groups like GLAAD (SB777), not allowing parents to home-school, not allowing children a Tylenol in school, but allowing students to leave school for abortions without parent's knowledge. When did the gov't & its agencies get so screwed-up? I encourage everyone, parents and non-parents alike, to be informed and get involved. It's your tax dollars, it's your future. I agree with the poster who said 'No Child Left Behind is now Every Child is Left Behind'.

Who Are They? TIPS FOR TEACHERS wrote on Mar 13, 2008 8:54 PM:Adjusting to a new language and culture is a challenging and difficult process that takes several years. The more you know about your ESL students and their backgrounds, the more you will be able to help them.

Some important questions are:

What country do they come from?
What language(s) do they and their families speak?
Are they immigrants or refugees?
What was life like in their native country?
What was their previous schooling experience?
What is their level of literacy in their native language?
What are some of the cultural aspects of their culture that may impact their experience in your class (taboos, sex roles, gestures, kinesthetics, etc.)?

Gary in Murrieta wrote on Mar 13, 2008 8:58 PM:According th the above webpage the percent of ESL students in Menifee is almost 18%. In my personal experience I would say that is about half of actual.

The public school I went to in Torrance, CA is now 12% ESL, and when I went there, I do not remember any kids who did not speak English.

Meanwhile in Arizona wrote on Mar 13, 2008 9:07 PM:PHOENIX — The state's top education official is asking for an extra $40 million in the next state budget to pay for implementing a law revamping instruction for students who are learning English, with most of the money going for additional teachers.

Districts don't need the $274.6M they seek, AZ school chief asserts. SOURCE : Media Services

There Just Isn't Any More Money wrote on Mar 13, 2008 9:18 PM:A study by the Heritage Foundation's Robert Rector found a household headed by an individual without a high school education, including about two-thirds of illegal aliens, costs U.S. taxpayers more than $32,000 in federal, state and local benefits. That same family contributes an average of $9,000 a year in taxes, resulting in a net tax burden of $22,449 each year.

BUDGET DEFICITS CAUSED BY ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS wrote on Mar 13, 2008 9:31 PM:A major cost factor in the conduct of school operations relates to the vast number of children of illegal immigrants in our classroom and the special-training dictates for many of those students being taught in their native language -- some 82 languages in San Diego County, 112 languages in Los Angeles County.

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2008/03/11/opinion/commentary/20_06_273_10_08.txt

Here We Go Again wrote on Mar 13, 2008 9:34 PM:Illegals ARE a problem in that they cost billions of dollars in social services. Why is it soooo impossible to understand the word illegal (no matter the country of origin)? Does it really take a big hmmmmmmmm to think what we could do with that money?

Gary in Murrrieta wrote on Mar 13, 2008 9:45 PM:The private school that my children attend has a total student population of 486 students and a Student/Teacher Ratio of 16.9 students / one teacher. The percentage of ESL students is 0%.

The ethnic mak-up of the students is as follows: American Indian 9, Asian 55,
Black 7, Hispanic 85, and White 266.

Let's get back on topic (this article) people wrote on Mar 13, 2008 9:48 PM:Anyone else out there ANGRY at the teachers (in Temecula) who sent their students home, with their "form letters" to our State reps & Arnold so their parents could sign them...AND, they were TOLD that IF they RETURNED them, they'd get EXTRA CREDIT?
Nice, huh? That's not only WRONG, it's illegal! Why isn't anyone investigating that Mr. Sibby, Carol, Barbara Tooker...anyone, anyone, anyone?

To Who Are They TIPS FOR TEACHERS wrote on Mar 13, 2008 9:55 PM:How many other countries would go to such lengths to teach their language to new students. Before you have to think I'll tell you ZERO! Why would you have to worry about 'cultural aspects that may impact their experience in your classroom'? They've come to this country for a better life. They need to immerse themselves in THIS culture.

I found it interesting listening to a Korean woman on a radio program say that when their children come home for school they begin their school day through home schooling or outside tutoring. They want to learn every aspect of how to make it in this country, without fully relying on the generosity of this country. What a concept!

It IS time to tighten our belts and cut the State budget. Find the programs that aren't working, including the educational system (look into more charter schools or vouchers to better educate our children). DON'T raise taxes to fund more of the same!

Sherry wrote on Mar 13, 2008 10:22 PM:As a Ca resident I did my taxes yesterday. Claiming 0 dependents I owe 0 to federal taxes, but tell me why claiming 0 with the state of California I still have to pay them an additional $4,000?

We worked hard, we paid for our home and then retired. I thought this was the American Dream. But not in California.

In California we are not rewarded for doing the right thing, we are being penalized. Your house is paid for - your penalized. You buy your own health insurance, great no deduction there. You have savings in the bank, great you can aford to pay for college for your kids. With your pension you are still in the middleclass, great lets penalize you and take an additional 9.3% of that.

In other words, we the middleclass of California are expected to work hard not for our future, but to support every free benefit extended to illegal aliens.

Madam Pariot wrote on Mar 13, 2008 10:47 PM:To: Who Are They? TIPS FOR TEACHERS

You make my point exactly regarding the socialization in public schools today. Although your questions are important in knowing who your student is, it shouldn't dictate a change in how to teach to all of your students. It is good to know that someone may not like be touched by a male (teacher or student), but it shouldn't be taboo for everyone in the class to touch someone because it may offend this individual.

America was made great because its peoples all contributed to the melting pot, embracing and respecting their new country. That is no longer happening. The left has basically said that it's okay to be who you are, and you don't have to adapt and contribute to the melting pot if you don't want to. You can keep all of your language and culture and we'll cater to you; your way, in your language, regardless of expense.

The sooner ELL students learn English, the quicker they'll be able to join the regular classes with kids from all cultures. The only way to do this is through language immersion. Currently kids can stay in ELL for years if their parents allow it. This shouldn't be allowed if we truly want a unified America. Unfortunately right now there is a big crack in it and it appears to be widening.

But without the extra taxes wrote on Mar 14, 2008 6:44 AM:how will we have Gay Day, or be able to learn about the Muslim religion, what about differnt life styles? Are we to remain ignoranemt? I just thanke the public sckool systems for me higher education. :)

English as the main wrote on Mar 14, 2008 6:48 AM:language all others elective classes. I would like to learn Spanish from Spain not Mexico.

The children in my wrote on Mar 14, 2008 7:24 AM:neighborhood go to the public schools here in California, they still speak only spanish but have learned most of the English cuss words.

Missing the Point wrote on Mar 14, 2008 8:28 AM:You had teachers and all plus people honking in support of them. Where were all the Temecula "cops"? Why weren't they issuing tickets to those honking drivers? Well? I really need to know why they "chose" not to be near that area.

What makes sense wrote on Mar 14, 2008 8:31 AM:is to have either a church or a community center have classes for the children in the neighborhood with the teaching being shared with the parents. Home schooling with multiple students.

Skip wrote on Mar 14, 2008 8:51 AM:Until the government of California takes an honest approach on the fiscal crisis, this is what they will get. Much discontent. The same goes for the teachers. Everyone knows that our schools are swamped with Illegal aliens and the children of Illegal aliens. Everyone knows that they are more costly to educate, and at the same time they are lowering the curve. So why anyone should be surprised when the American taxpayer gets bitter and goes into revolt. The people who are using the system the most are paying the least. Add to that Americans who now feel that they must pay for private schools for their children’s benefit and you get even more discontent when the masses are marching in the streets demanding more more more.

Reardon wrote on Mar 14, 2008 10:03 AM:"Where Do Public School Teachers Send Their Kids to School?" done by the Thomas B. Fordham Foundation. (September 2004, Thomas B. Fordham Foundation ) shows that public school teachers are more likely to send their children to private schools than the general population. In urban areas, the numbers are impressive – in Washington D.C. the general population send their children to a private school at a 19.8% rate, but public school teachers do so at a 26.8% rate. On a nationwide basis, 12.2 % of the population send their children to private schools, urban families use private schools at a 17.5 % rate, but urban public school teachers send their students to private schools at a 21.5% rate.

The study was done from 2000 Census date. Is it possible that public school teachers know something the rest of us do not know?

Phobe wrote on Mar 14, 2008 10:17 AM:I tell you what...its dem darn mexican illegal immigrants...yes-sir-ree-bob..they darn near broke the scool system....us zenerfobes are gittin a little scared of this. stuff happens and we have a rawht to speak out and shoot from the hip witout fact....factand information is way over rateed.

Let's get back to the story wrote on Mar 14, 2008 11:49 AM:The point is that we (Californians) have a budget deficit. So we can do only two things to balance the budget, expend less money and/or collect more taxes. Obviously, nobody wants to pay (more) taxes and the first option should always be to be more efficient in our expending. So budget cuts, targeted to specific areas, makes sense, but a general cut across the board is just demonstrates the lack of economical knowledge and understanding of former Mr. Universe. Anyway, sometimes there is a limit of how much can be cut without hurting services that are essential for the community. So, sometimes it might be justifiable to raise taxes, once again, in a selective manner, not just across the board. Increasing or creating a new tax for the oil companies (oil producers) seems to make sense. Let me explain why. The cost for extracting a barrel of oil is pretty much the same if the price of the barrel in the market is $10 or $100, therefore, when the price of the barrel was close to $30 a barrel, the oil companies were able to cover all their associated production costs and make good money, so the increases in oil prices during the recent years is just icing in the cake, goes straight to profits. So this new proposed tax, for the oil that it is extracted from California, could be paid from this extra revenue driven by the oil prices without affecting the final consumer and helping the government to balance the budget and fund essential services, as education.

How sad... wrote on Mar 14, 2008 12:43 PM:I know someone who works for Arnie. When I asked him if his kids go to public school he laughed for 5 minutes. Not one of our law-makers or Arnie send their kids to public school and that is why they don't give a rat's rump!!

Give your kids wrote on Mar 14, 2008 12:59 PM:a vacation give them 30 days off from school. The school system and the teachers don't need the money. And during the vacation look into starting a home schooling program in your neighborhood.

Oh Phobe just so you are wrote on Mar 14, 2008 1:00 PM:informed, since I can tell you never graduated..You see, there are 3 types of visitors in our country: 1. Illegal aliens: these are the people who break into our country illegally. 2. Immigrants; These are people who are in our country on a visa or green card that have our country's permission to be here. 3. Illegal Immigrants: people who have "expired" visas and green cards that are still in our country. The card has expired and they need to leave our country. So you see, there is a big difference. Don't believe the lies that the media try to push on you, know the facts.

Not one penny more! wrote on Mar 14, 2008 1:08 PM:In fifth grade, students will learn about the risks of sexually transmitted diseases. In middle school, they will discuss the psychological and physical consequences of rape and sexual assault. By high school, students will be talking about condoms and even the morning-after pill. After nearly two years of debate and numerous drafts, California's State Board of Education quietly adopted its first-ever set of "health education content standards" this week. The guidelines spell out exactly what California's more than 6 million students from kindergarten through grade 12 are expected to know about health and are required as part of a controversial 2004 law which replaced a patchwork of often contradictory statutes on sex education. The law requires that all high schools give "medically accurate" information about condoms and other forms of birth control. Go teach Arnie's kids.

Reardon wrote on Mar 14, 2008 1:54 PM:To Let's Get Back to the Story: Make you a deal -- I'll support taxing the oil companies (as the House tried to do yesterday by $0.50 a gallon) if you will pay the $0.50 a gallon the price will rise to cover the new tax, on my cars! Taxes are not paid by corporations -- they are a cost of doing business just like labor, materials, lawyers, accountants, etc. and the tax is simply added to the price at the pump. I actually wish the tax had passed yesterday and been signed, so the outrage the next day at the gas pumps would have been a lesson in Econ 101.

We are On the Story wrote on Mar 14, 2008 2:11 PM:From the title of this story, you may wonder why so many comments about Illegal Immigration are being made. Most Californians are in denial. Public education is not cheap, in fact it is downright expensive. The way the California public school system is set up is that all children regardless of whether their parents pay taxes, are in the country legally or just got here yesterday, they all get the same benefits. We cannot penalize the children, but we can penalize the taxpayers. If you have 5 or more kids in your family, are on California soil and have never paid a cent in California state taxes in your life, you still get free education for all of your children( at $10,000 to $15,000 a year each.) Well that is the state of the state of California right now, and someone has to pay. If your children are U.S. born then you also get WIC. Free Lunches, and free breakfast and a host of other free programs all at taxpayer expense. Remember California has more Illegal Aliens then any other state in the nation. Illegal activists are fond of saying that Immigrants, both legal and illegal, are the backbone of the state's nearly $28 billion-a-year agricultural industry. Well I do not doubt that, but if that is the case, then how about we start charging the agricultural industry the cost of providing for the California school system. The point is that we (Californians) have a budget deficit.

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2004/12/06/news/top_stories/19_56_5812_5_04.txt

If I were an individual wrote on Mar 14, 2008 2:23 PM:with a California debt like problem, I would of been at the bankruptcy attorney's office years ago! And yes I would of torn up all of the credit cards a long time ago. But I guess when it is the taxpayers money they just don't care.

in temecule wrote on Mar 14, 2008 2:27 PM:I am on the school site council and am appalled at the amount of money that is set aside for the ESL (English learners) and when questioned why special ed kids and kids with mild learning disabilities can not use any of these funds to help them I am told becuase it for the English learners only. To bad we don't spend as much on our middle of the road kids to help them achieve there full potential.

If you bail one out, you have wrote on Mar 14, 2008 3:02 PM:to bail all out! Bail out California and bail me out too, I am two months behind on my rent. NEW YORK -- In an unprecedented move Friday, J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. and the Federal Reserve Bank of New York stepped in with emergency funds to keep beleaguered investment bank Bear Stearns Cos. afloat. The move, after a week of persistent concerns about whether Bear could continue to meet its obligations, took the credit crisis to a new, more serious stage and was a reminder of how quickly an erosion of confidence can undermine even leading financial institutions.
WAIT! If you bail us out, do we still get the $300.00 you promised us in May?

Greg in Oceanside wrote on Mar 14, 2008 3:39 PM:It is well documented that illegal immigration is the biggest reason California is having this budget crisis with billions spent on educating and providing healthcare and welfare benefits to them. Illegal aliens are a burden to all taxpayers and have been a severe drain on our government for too long and it has finally caught up to us. As a hard-working taxpayer who pays more in taxes than some earn in six months to a year, I refuse to be taxed any more to take up the slack. Are hard-working, taxpaying citizens getting our money's worth? You be the judge. But, I know that I'm tired of carrying the load for others who are getting benefits for free and who are now affecting our quality of life. I want the kind of education my children deserve, without compromise, and don't fe