Yes for Desalination wrote on Aug 6, 2008 12:50 PM:Attorney Mike Aguirre said San Diego will not get water from the plant?
If Carlsbad does not get water from the plant it will reduce the availability of water to San Diego.
So actually San Diego is benefiting from the plant, AND will be able to use it as a study for their own desalination plant.

Another Yes wrote on Aug 6, 2008 1:07 PM:We must have additional water, and Poseidon is ready to go, if only the Coastal Commission will rule to allow it. They already did make that ruling, months ago, and hopefully, this is just about the conditions that were placed upon it. San Diego will also benefit from the water, since more will be available to them. Desalination is used around the world. The time is now.

Yes wrote on Aug 6, 2008 1:53 PM:For Aguirre to understand that would take logic and we know he's got a shortage of that going on!

Opposition wrote on Aug 6, 2008 3:31 PM:The opposition to projects like this by environmental groups continue to make it appear they are really just against potential solutions, and not really for anything. Hiding behind the argument that it could be done better (better route for powerlines, better route for roads, better places for quarries or powerplants or whatever) is just another way to oppose things outright without having to come out and say what they really mean.

This country's future is not going to be a "green" one. It might, and should, be greener, but most people will still demand a certain amount of modern "conveniences", like water, transportation, and energy. When was the last project of any kind in these categories that the Surfrider Foundation and their friends supported? Can anyone remember even one?

thirsty wrote on Aug 6, 2008 3:40 PM:It's a big ocean. Let's use it.

Shut up and sit wrote on Aug 6, 2008 4:25 PM:down. We need this water. Surfrider, worry about plastic bags. You and the other environuts closed off water from the north due to the Delta Smelt. Enough already. Go to Borrego if you want to live in a desert! Of course the villiage idiot Aguirre has to spout off for free campaign coverage. Someone tell him we should sue the City for allowing to many cars in San Diego that pollutes North County. This guy is a piece of work. Why isn't he sueing Mexico for polluting Imperial Beach with the TJ river? Enough, we need the water and it makes sense! Obstructionist need to get out of the way.

and another YES wrote on Aug 6, 2008 4:41 PM:It's either us or the fish. That's the bottom line. Do you want to trade human survival with fish? Everything becomes extinct over time. We can't save everything! And no, I don't eat spotted owl or eagles or whatever else is on the endangered species list. I'm just saying that we have to do what we have to do. Too many people live down here in this desert and we have to survive, with our without the fish.

Right on Opposition wrote on Aug 6, 2008 4:42 PM:What can you expect from folks that the biggest thing they worry about is the size of the next set of waves. Anything they feel may come close to affecting this they will fight regardless how remote. They are using donated money so what do they care of the cost. People with common sense would stop supporting these obstructionist groups and let them dry up and fade away.

Bigger Picture wrote on Aug 6, 2008 5:13 PM:it's not that enviros dont want desal. it's the type. open ocean intake is the proposed type (since there is existing infrastructure) and it does in fact cause a significant environmental problem. Sub Surface intake is the method used in other parts of the word. Infrastructure is built below ground and water seeps in- no one gets hurt and it also reduces the need for reverse osmosis at high velocity (required for open ocean intake) which is energy intensive.
the idea is that we make Posideon pay for proper desal methods upfront instead of do the cheaper but inferior method. but i dont think any enviros who know what they're talking about actually oppose desal outright. again, its the method.

Osider wrote on Aug 6, 2008 5:14 PM:Although this is great idea, what happens to all salt that is extracted? Will they be putting it right back into the ocean make our oceans much more salty? I know down in Baja at Punta Abrejos, they have had one since the early 90's with no hiccups but, keep in mind, thats Baja who probably doesn't keep many records on enviromental impacts.

Carlsbad Resident wrote on Aug 6, 2008 5:28 PM:Remember, the desalination plant is all about the City Council's ability to build more homes in Carlsbad. The City Council and the Chamber of Commerce is the same organization.

Theyre nuts wrote on Aug 6, 2008 9:40 PM:These folks opposed to this are nuts.
We need water.
The rest of the world does it, for those that can afford it, and the environs oppose it all.
I'm surprised Nancy Pelosi didn't take a break from her vacation for this one.

Clifford wrote on Aug 6, 2008 9:51 PM:I sometimes feel we are surrounded by idiots. The entire Mid East
gets most of their water by desalination as a by-product of making electric energy. The Germans designed and have built the units for years now.

A few months ago, Jeddah in Saudi Arabia ran short of water --so they brought out the emergency BARGE, anchored it on the shore and provided over 20,000 families a day with fresh water.

Why are our "smart minds" still trying to figure out if it will work???
Who needs to get paid off before it gets done??

BAR XR wrote on Aug 7, 2008 3:19 AM:We do need the water! Also you must look at the other desal plants like the one in Florida it has not had a bad effect on the environment it has helped the hi mineral discharge has promoted sea life in that area due to the critters thriving on the high food content in the discharge area.

get real wrote on Aug 7, 2008 5:39 AM:Do the math.
The Pacific ocean has 187 quintillion gallons of water or 3,743,800,000,000 times the amount of water we would desalinate in a day.
That's 0.000000000002% of the ocean.
At that rate the sun will explode before any harm will come to the ocean.

How do you spell R E L I E F wrote on Aug 7, 2008 6:46 AM:Today we in North County have to thank our lucky stars that the Coastal Commission finally approved the Poseidon desalination project. It will surely bring much-needed relief to our local farmers. Now is the time for us to all get together and figure out how we can get our local water utilities to band dogether and create a huge grey-water facility and provide reclaimed water everywhere it is needed. If we did that, we could use that grey water to provide for our outside uses. Purple pipe is on its way ! Thanks to everyone for using technology to assist us. After all, we do live in a desert.

To Osider and Bigger wrote on Aug 7, 2008 6:55 AM:Osider, if what they say is true with Global warming the North and South poles are melting putting to much fresh water into the ocean that will harm the fish etc. This salt will help offset it. To Bigger Picture. Yeah right! What world do you live in. They are obstructionist to any type of growth or use of what nature has given us. Why people donate to these groups is beyond me. They will tie this up in law suits and meanwhile we will be rationing water, putting farmers out of business and again hurting the people the live here. It has to stop!

C-bad believer wrote on Aug 7, 2008 7:15 AM:good job Coastal Commission - even though the governor is going to flip your members to get the toll road in o.c. approved, this will go down as a prudent decision.

Agua Hedionda area resident wrote on Aug 7, 2008 7:32 AM:Bring it ON, we need the water. If the environmentalists are so concerned about the 'sensitive' lagoon, get rid of the jet skiers and power boats.

Larry wrote on Aug 7, 2008 7:33 AM:I hope they leave enough water in the ocean for the surfers.

Bud wrote on Aug 7, 2008 7:44 AM:The one thing people forget is that the water will be saltier going back out....but....the reclaimed water we send back into the ocean up and down the coast is pretty much salt free. To me, that makes for a nice balance. If they really wanted to do these desal plants, IMO build them fairly close to the outfalls so the water can mix together as it enters back into the ocean. At least it makes sense to me. With the population growth are we really sure it is total drought, or is it expansion? The Colorado only has so much to offer. The whole western U.S. is under heavy demand with all the homes built, and with more babies being born, wow, where is the water going to come from as well as the food if we can water the plants to grow it?

Actually Larry wrote on Aug 7, 2008 8:17 AM:Some of us would be perfectly happy if they'd shave off that top 1% just to shut those surfers up. They dont want desalination.. but people like them are part of the reason we lost 30% of our water supply and yet they offer no alternative other than "conservation". Most of us already conserve as much as possible yet we are still threatened with water shortages while we have a literal ocean in our front yards.

Mela wrote on Aug 7, 2008 8:38 AM:Yes!! We need the water, USA - wake up! It's just the ocean that we have for sure.

Patriot wrote on Aug 7, 2008 8:40 AM:The root cause of our water shortage is the exponentially growing population consuming a finite supply. Even with a seemingly infinite supply of water in the ocean, the amount available from desalination will be finite. How many more people can we cram into California?

Half baked thoughts wrote on Aug 7, 2008 8:43 AM:Thirsty: It's a big ocean let's pollute it, like our rivers, ground and air. There is lots of water out there, like there was lots of oil down there.

and another yes: I prefer fish.

Carlsbad Resident: Add developers to that organization.

Get real: Get real!

Bud: The return unsalty water is natural run-off, rain etc. The balance is natural. This throws it out of balance.

We never learn. We are the only animal on the face of the earth destroying it and all of you supporters are culpable. Your kids will have drinking water for a while, but will never surf. Sad.

blm wrote on Aug 7, 2008 8:50 AM:Having a back-up drinking water supply when you live in the desert just seems like a good idea. It is insurance against both temporary import infrastructure problems and long term changes that could lead to Northern CA and Colorado River supply shortages such that they decide to keep their water for themselves.

Big Jim wrote on Aug 7, 2008 9:01 AM:To "and another YES"
"It's either us or the fish. That's the bottom line. Do you want to trade human survival with fish? Everything becomes extinct over time. We can't save everything!"

I definitely agree with you. This is my same feeling about drilling for oil in ANWR.

STOP THE PLANT wrote on Aug 7, 2008 9:17 AM:Don't like or respect our beaches and style of living? Please stop moving in and/or visiting our humble beach towns! We can't understand you people who put themselves above every and anything including our beautiful mother ocean. The ocean is more than a water well to us! How many of you grew up fishing at this lagoon with your parents, matter of fact how many of you are born and rasied here? Most of you complain about migrant workers, and now your defending thier employers??? It's just the enviorment...right.

Radman wrote on Aug 7, 2008 9:19 AM:To half baked, why won't the kids be able to surf? Will the desal stop the waves? Will the ocean part and turn red? You are an obstructionist that uses scare tactics to try and convince people of your point. The waves aren't going anywhere and we will still be surfing a hundred years from now.

The sad part is you think the waves will go away if you don’t protect them.

Reardon wrote on Aug 7, 2008 9:20 AM:Heart of a Democrat

The highest ranking San Diego County Democrat, City Attorney Mike Aguirre, came out in favor of desalinization this morning in usual Democrat form.

Which is to say, he wants to make it a public, not a private enterprise! He wants the government to run it.

Surprised?

I’m not!

Cardiffian wrote on Aug 7, 2008 9:53 AM:Let's see if I understand this. We have had a period of low interest rates, a great economy, and unprecedented growth in our housing resulting in many more people living in our area demanding greater infrastructure and water. A company sees an opprotunity to fill a need by building a desal plant on the foundations of an old water cooled power plant. Becuase they want to be "efficient", they are using desal technology that some in the industry regard as outdated and obsolete - in fact, all over the world these plants aren't built this way anymore. So, in trying to modernize the facility, the surfers get blamed?!? People who ride waves are "the reason we lost 30% of our water supply"?!? I'm surprised no one has said that there will be a 30% increase in water supply if we get rid of illegals! The arguement is equally as inane. Frankly, I am happy with the coastal commission - they are one of the few checks and balances we have against unbridled land grabs. There is a reason everyone wants to live in California despite the high taxes and "unfavorable" business climate. Otherwise, we would look like Texas.

Nick wrote on Aug 7, 2008 10:14 AM:For any of you folks who would like to understand how desalination plants work and the pros and cons associated with the different types of plants, I suggest you go to Wickipedia and type in "Desalination", or go to this .gov website
"http://www.coastal.ca.gov/desalrpt/dchap1.html"

They don't have all the answers but will definately help some of you to better understand what is going on.
Cheers, Nick.

Sam wrote on Aug 7, 2008 10:22 AM:The objections by the Surfrider Foundation and San Diego Coastkeeper, show me that they only care about other things except humans. They complain about anything that helps us to live. All species have limited life spans anyway, including man. If the cockroach was in danger of extinction, they probably protect them also but would not allow them to live in their own homes.

Progressive Conservationist wrote on Aug 7, 2008 10:23 AM:To Half Baked Thoughts:

You, my friend, have the most appropriate moniker on this board.

Best wishes (and science) to all!

janet wrote on Aug 7, 2008 10:56 AM:I don't oppose desal; I just think they are doing it wrong. San Diego would have plenty of water if they didn't keep approving more and more building, and keep structuring water rates so people can put in huge lawns, etc. My neighbor has a one acre lawn he waters every day of the year. And what is the point of desal or conservation when it will just be used to justify more development? Then the city will be back demanding more conservation. The problems are growth and waste, not a shortage of water.

Re Bigger Picture wrote on Aug 7, 2008 11:13 AM:The bigger, bigger picture is that no matter what the proposed desal project is, there would be a bunch of folks that oppose it. See the post about this being a front for more development? That's the core belief among those that really oppose human civilization, not just desalinization. What I would prefer, and I suspect many others would as well, is BOTH new sources for things like water and energy, as well as slowing new development, in the hopes that there would be some sort of balance at some point.

To Half Baked Thoughts wrote on Aug 7, 2008 11:29 AM:Where do you think the desalinated water will end up once it is used?
Right back in the ocean, x=x.
Your moniker is dead on.

retrogrouch wrote on Aug 7, 2008 11:53 AM:I just drove down the 101 from San Francisco. The farms there are spray irrigating in the middle of the day during a 20 MPH winds, very wasteful. If we can get these No-Cal farmers to save 5% there will be more than enough water for the rest of us without expensive de-sal

prof wrote on Aug 7, 2008 3:51 PM:There is no profit to be made in water conservation, much less slowing development with the side effect of needing less water (and power stations, and roads, and retail, etc).

There are huge profits to be made in desalinating water.

Janet and Bigger Picture should run for office.

Is there wrote on Aug 7, 2008 3:57 PM:less water on the planet than there was 100 years ago? and if so, where did it go?

I always thought that water evaporates here and is returned in the form of rain somewhere else. Which to me, means there is no less water, it's just in another location. The ocean is a big place and it seems that every time I'm on an island in the Pacific, it rains a lot. Islands just happen to be small pieces of land, surrounded by the ocean.

But then again...I could be all wrong, since I am a product of the California school system!

Let's do the desalination plants, but let's do them right!

BD wrote on Aug 7, 2008 4:02 PM:We should have done this 15 years ago. It's not a perfect fix, but we have to do something. Or perhaps the environmentalists could use a little less water in their bongs.

DoctorCraig wrote on Aug 7, 2008 7:11 PM:My, what a display of anti-environmental bigotry, based on nothing more than strawmen ("they only care about other things except humans") and one dimensional, false choice(this plant now or we get no water) logical falacies.

Kill the fish, eggs and larvae on the way in, trash the local wetlands with 2x salinity water on the way out. Why do you think they are required to mitigate 55 acres at other wetlands?

All easily mitigated by subsurface intake and dilution on the way out. But that would make the plant and the water more expensive, as it would not externalize the the cost of the environment degradation onto others, and show the true cost of desalination, making it economically untenable.

The environmentalists, being acquainted with the wildlife in the area and having actually read the EIRs and such, have it right.

Poor Mother Earth wrote on Aug 8, 2008 7:56 AM:Why do we insist on torturing Mother Earth and the animals that have a right to inhabit her? Stop watering your cement-covered, eco-yuppie mansions and washing your 5mpg SUV's. Someone needs to speak for the earth and the animals because PEOPLE are not smart enough to take care of what they have.

Hey Radman wrote on Aug 8, 2008 9:29 AM:(which you aren't) everything goes away if left unprotected.